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First time in over a decade I've had no interest in what's up with the new Ubuntu release. I'll probably have to figure some stuff out when someone at work wants to upgrade their desktop, but it can wait until then.

Looks like they've totally committed to the garbage that is snaps, I hope that can still be ripped out or I'm considering it a totally lost cause.

Geez, I'm a fucking grumpy old greybeard these days. Going outside now to shake my cane angrily at the kids on my lawn.

@mike You're not alone there. I also hate snaps

@matt I'm prepared to begin re-evaluation of my opinion when this bug (sorry - "fundamental design flaw") is fixed.

bugs.launchpad.net/snappy/+bug

@mike It was only added as an issue 4 years ago. Can't rush these things.

@matt what bugs me more than the age of it is the "Won't Fix" tag on it.

Urgh I'm not getting into this rant now, I'm going to go bake something nice instead. 🍞

@mike @matt
"The $HOME directory of the user must match /home/*. Other directories are not supported yet. In particular /home/subdir/user is also not supported." forum.snapcraft.io/t/limitatio

wat

Just… wtf? How is this a thing?

@daedalus @matt not only that, but this alleged simple way for non-technical users to install apps FAILS SILENTLY if this issue occurs.

The only way to even get a clue what's going on is to launch said snap from the command line.

Otherwise, these snaps which get priority by default in the software store shipped by Ubuntu, even if a normal version exists in the repos, just seem to do absolutely nothing when you install them. Great UX there.

Utter garbage tech.

@mike @matt snaps are a good idea poorly implemented.
But I am still slightly agog that no one seems to have figured out *why* they don't work with homedirs in other places.

@daedalus the issue was raised in 2016. It's a fundamental design flaw and their lack of interest in dealing with it just makes me completely disinterested in the people behind it.

AppImage is a much better approach and has always worked fine for me. I tried Flatpak once and there was some weird issue I had, but I didn't spend any time with it, just couldn't bring myself to care.

@mike @daedalus sorry I’m coming at this from a place of almost complete ignorance about how snaps work but is there not a file that has been present on Unix systems since about 400BCE that lists the absolute path of a user’s home directory? ffs

@mike @daedalus I’ve been a Ubuntu fan since *checks shelf of old CD-ROMs* 2009. How hard is it to switch to straight Debian do you reckon?

@ozjimbob @daedalus I'm a previous fan since a similar era, deployed a computer lab at a university with 7.10 and have been using it from then, up to a year ago.

As of Debian 10 I honestly can't say I'm seeing any difficulties with the change, other than a little up front work if you want firmware etc from the non-free repo.

Even Steam running windows games is going fine. It "Just Works". :awesome:

@mike @ozjimbob @daedalus I've been on Debian since 2017 and haven't had any problems.

@pelagikat @mike @ozjimbob @daedalus I have been back and forth from Debian to Ubuntu to Debian to Ubuntu to Debian and well.. I keep coming back to Debian. Debian is getting better, but part of that is the underlying tools are just getting better and require less polish for less technical ppl to get going well.

@pelagikat @ozjimbob @daedalus yeah, I think Ubuntu's old niche of "your hardware will work out of the box" isn't such an uncommon thing any more. Not much else going for it now.

@mike @pelagikat @ozjimbob @daedalus Exactly. The underlying projects are much more polished, have better testing, more mature code, etc.

@mike Eh. Between macOS dmg and everybody putting everything in docker containers these days, I think that one's a fight that you won't win.

I 100% remove everything related to snaps in my early provisioning scripts, too, though.
@mike
If I had the energy and the training I think it would be fascinating to dig in and try to figure out why *this* attempt at containerisation took off when none of the others did. But that's definitely not going to happen.

@stibbons and look, I don't need to "win" this fight unless Debian goes away somehow. Buster is a very good release and I'm totally happy with it as a desktop OS!

@stibbons @mike I too remove the involuntary kubernetes and snaps from all ubuntu installations first. Fuck that noise.

I'm snapping myself right over to trying guix, which is the only thing recently that has any chance of prying me away from my beloved Debian.

@mike just make sure you shake that cane from an appropriate government-recommended distance

@mike The lawn was just fine before those stupid kids stood on it...

@chidgey well to be totally honest my lawn is a huge pile of dirt right now as I'm in the middle of breaking it all up and starting again.

Next year I'll have a lawn to tell kids to get off of, if all goes well.

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